Talk:Regio 2 - Map and Layout Draft
A few little thoughts from the plan, as to ways it might be improved (by which I suspect I may mean made more like a 'real' medieval settlement. In many ways, what we have here is similar to a small fortified settlement, or even, a rather loosely-built castle. It has defined boundaries, it has the equivalent of an inner bailey (the mages), and an outer bailey (the workers) and a gatehouse. So - perhaps the grouping of the buildings needs to reflect that a little further. We've also got the issues of real life practicalities I've mentioned before - water and smell. The other factor I could see coming out of tweaking the layout is one of drama - making the mages end a bit more dramatic. Sorting through these in reverse order Drama - I like the arc of towers at the read, with the council chamber built centrally in front of them. How about building something to balance 20 Domus Marcus on the East side? My suggestion is to build something of roughly equivalent size, perhaps combining the various quarters? By doing this we've a balanced top-end to the site, and two ways through from the lower end. Now the practicalities. Water - we've a number of buildings that need significant quantities of water. The brewery, kitchens, and the weaver will all need clean supplies, others, the piggery & stables will also need supplies, but can be downstream and take dirtier water. Ideally I'd suggest that the water source is central, with drainage running south. Smell - the piggery & stables will smell of animals, the kitchens and smithy of fire (and will also be a fire risk). Accordingly they probably all should be towards the east side of the area - downwind to the prevailing winds. That probably means that the other service buildings should be towards the west. Paths - Unless the wiggles are there to cope with a steep slope, I'd suggest that we look at having a straight path up the middle, and let the other paths develop as people find the routes they need to use. So - here's a slightly developed version, working on those ideas... Comments Paths - The top is almost flat, so there is no need for wiggles. In fact, during the site preparation phase, which a fair amount of time was allotted to, the entire area could have been rendered perfectly flat, as hillforts often seem to have been. :That was what I thought - just wanted to check / explain why suggested removal of paths. --OldNick 13:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Number 22 - This isn't on Corbon's original picture. Is it the water source? --James 13:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC) :Yes - a wellhouse or something similar. --OldNick 13:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Do the grogs practice in the space behind their barracks, and adjacent to tower 15? :Or totally outside, or in the main front area. Not defined. --OldNick 13:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Did you have something in mind for the space between 16 and 20? --James 13:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC) :My thought was that the two areas behind 20 and 8-18 would be available for expansion of buildings for mages later. The west spare space 19-11-9 would be for more 'trademen' and similar --OldNick 13:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Good work. I like the way that your approach is similar to what I've read about in architectural books for home design. --James 02:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC) V2 Revisions A little moving around of buildings, + addition of a barber/surgeon 23 Jeff's Comments I'm just quibbling and fussing and tweaking 'cause it's fun. Bear that in mind:-) Real medieval settlements tend to sort of grow rather than be planned. Ours is more planned and more like a small castle-keep than a village, so I would expect it to be a bit more organized. :Agreed completely - to start with. With time I can see it getting crowded and complicated. --OldNick 09:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC) In medieval walled towns, space is at a premium. We don't have that issue, so we don't have to do the usual tricks, but some of those tricks are useful for other reasons - eg. shared walls use less building material. I would expect more of the buildings to built into/against the outer wall. ::Indeed, but thats much harder to draw. :-) --Corbonjnl 03:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :::The thought had also crossed my mind, but in drawing up my sketch in Visio the same conclusion that it was harder to draw had encouraged me to leave it as it was. As to the lack of space, from my reading of it, many medieval towns had a lot of space inside their alls to start with - often with long narrow holdings behind the buildings, but then filled in these areas later. --OldNick 09:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC) :Feel free to use some of the "space-using tricks" if they look cool. Style and panache. I quite like the idea of the covenant sticking to the same sized aegis year in year out in order to maximise protection, and the interior of the walls gradually becoming more and more interesting as things get crammed in, redeveloped, etc. ::Again, agreed. If we've defined a ring, and want to stick with it, it will become crowded. --OldNick 09:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC) One question that does come to mind is that of paving. Do we have a paved courtyard? :You have a bedrock foundation. I assumed you had cleared the site down to the bedrock and levelled it? --James 02:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC) ::I'm assuming the same, if nothing else but to get at the building material. The dirt etc can be replaced in selected areas afterwards. --Corbonjnl 03:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Another question is that of sewage and drainage. We could probably build sewers easily enough, but we would need a steady flow of water if they were to be useful. They would be handy as rainwater drainage, though. In any case, there must be a midden of some kind. The dung we have to hand, including chamberpot output, would/could be used on an herb or vegetable garden. :Having seen what we did originally outside the regio, I have sketched in an extra building as a water source. It would be fed by whatever water sources existed, using the same 'drilling a pipe' methods. From there the water would have to be lifted (means unspecified) and channelled in stone troughs to the major users. Similar troughs could be used to take away waste from those points. Minor users of water could use buckets. As to wher eit all ewnds up? Outside the walls beyond the pigs? --OldNick 09:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC) Herb/vegetable garden - we'd almost certainly have one of these, right near the kitchen. Gotta run, more later .... Samuels comments We will want professional armsmen and horsemen, thus an indoor training area should be part of the settlement. : If we push 'back' the main council hall a little we get a substantial 'square'. Not sure why we need indoor training areas? Oh, and as a side benefit that also brings the Towers closer together and reduces the size (length) of any future bridges. --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :: Indoor training area for keeping in practice on bad winters or the like. (Think of the time needed to get a good metal armour back in shape after a training session in pouring rain, probably a lot longer than the training it self, time that could be put to beter use.) --SamuelUser talk:Samuel_ArsMagica 20:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC) I am missing our secure storage (that should not be the same as the general warehouse for "daily" use) and any mention of our Mill. : I thought that was going to be on the third level? --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :: They are for use by the covenfolk, thus should be on second level. Besides our longterm storage should be within the aegis. Unless Ambrosius stone casting installation has been dismantled it ought to be mentioned on the map (even if it is outside), or was that on the third regio level? --SamuelUser talk:Samuel_ArsMagica 20:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Phaedrus has not built anything temporary (on a tower space or otherwhere), except on direct request by a Sodale. : What is he living in then, where was his sanctum marker before he built on L3? The gift practically demands he does not share a room with relatively important non-magi. --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :: My plan was to build lots of real houses but not as grand as the buildings for the Magi and have the Magi live in them untill their houses were ready. Phaedrus would hapily live in the (future) guest-house or a house connected to the smithy, dedicated for the use of a future glasblower. Both the smithy and the glass works will need lots of heat so it might be reasonable to put them together. --SamuelUser talk:Samuel_ArsMagica 20:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Sharing walls is good for keeping heat also, a point which we will need to think about unless/untill someone makes the The everfull woodshed. We probably want to keep a space between any houses and the ringwall for access and since that wall is a windbreak and probably will be colder than other things in rough weather. About sewers and drainage, Phaedrus has installed drainage pumps in all basements built. Sewers can be handled in a similar way, where do we want them to lead? Definitely a herb garden. : behind the kitchen? --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :: Or as James proposed along the ring wall, or both (some plants need a lot of attnetion or are better used fresh). --SamuelUser talk:Samuel_ArsMagica 20:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC) We will probably generate more dung than the gardens within the walls can use, but yes we do need a midden. Could we ward it some way to get rid of the stench? (That seems like Auram but the guidlines only talk about weather.) : beside the piggery? --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) :: Between it and the stables seems like a natural place... --SamuelUser talk:Samuel_ArsMagica 20:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC) Do we want a paved courtyard, or would it be more impressive if we could find a way to have constantly green grass that does not get muddy ever, or something else nice that is not mundane stone? Otherwise, sure Phaedrus can have quaried some flagstone from one of the basements. :Paved in gold, naturally. More seriously, such details are for 'later' improvements (and will be signs of moving from spring to summer/autumn covenant) during SoSs when not much else is demanded of relatively powerful magi, IMO. For now, we get the basics right and plan well so there is the opportunity for future embellishments, but lots of other things take priority over those embellishments. --Corbonjnl 03:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) James comments Note that anything I say on this matter can be freely disregarded! I'm just occupying myself during a slack working day. Herb Garden / Gardens / Pens Areas like these could be placed against the walls. In times of war, they can be freely trampled over, so placing them next to the walls doesn't inhibit the defenders in the slightest. They can also be of any shape, so can be placed in those hard-to-fill awkward bits that get left over at the end. A training ground is usually square or rectangular. The area immediately around the covenant has a fair slope to it, so training outside would probably on the flatter ground. If space can't be found inside, then maybe a large structure could have a floor devoted to it, or the main meeting hall, if large enough, could double in purpose. Waste water Where and how you dispose of your waste water is something worth considering given your neighbours, below... Magically filtering out the impurities and disposing of the resulting mass seperately might be an idea. Alternatively, a teleport ring spell might work wonders for you. :D The point about dung is good. Dry dung is far, far less smelly than wet dung, so you could simply seperate the water off, and the result dry mass would be easier for the grogs to handle. Alternatively, you could spread it on your fields. In Japan, human waste used to be called "night soil" and enterprising farmers would construct luxurious toilets on roadsides in order to get a steady supply of the stuff for their fields, and travel into towns to collect it. You have a lot of fields that would benefit greatly from being fertilised with dung of any description. Another way to control the smell is with a simple Rego Auram ward. Things don't smell when the air they occupy is kept seperate from the air you are breathing. The spell would be very low level, unless I'm mistaken. Covenant Ground A lot of time was allotted to "preparing the site". In this time, it is perfectly reasonable that the magi, being Rego-Terram-tastic, have removed all the top soil from the area, exposing the underlying rock, and levelled the rock flat. You have bedrock boon. Admittedly, it is still going to be preferable to smoothly pave those areas that are busy paths, or wish to appear impressive. From doing your accounts, I would recommend that you enchant a stone-cutting knife and hire a skilled stonemason. The stonemason and knife will give you significant savings to your annual budget (something in the order of 8 pounds from your Buildings maintenance). Then you can set him to running around the covenant doing things like this without having to leave your laboratories every ten minutes to help the grogs. --James 02:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)